an interview and my opinion about the Nakba

Yesterday I asked my grandmother about her experience Nakba ..  she cried and then began to answer
She told me: This incident  the toughest  incident passed in the life of the Palestinians .. We forcibly emigrated from our country and we do not want it .. We left our homes and we left everything behind .. Some people even leave his children and went away .. To an unknown fate
Was then an old people are uneducated and are not aware of it  .. When they hearing about the occurrence of a massacre in one of the neighboring villages .. they Flee quickly

The Jews had taken  over all our lands and we are able to do something
Some Palestinians went to abroad

And we came to the Gaza Strip. We lived in tents, UNRWA has supported us and provided our services .. Education and housing, food
And we are used to this life to this day my granddaughter

 

 

my opinion :

 

On the anniversary of the Nakba say that Palestine does not accept the division which is the right of the entire Palestinian people, which is still paying the price for his commitment to their land and their rights and martyrs and the blood and the prisoners and bear displacement, torture and displacement is not love in agony or pain, but in order to liberate the land and the expulsion of the usurper and the return of rights to establish a state on the entire border historically knownand geographically, politically and question posed in front of a lot of those interviewed in the near when asked about the state of occupation and where to go if all of Palestine for the Palestinians, I tell them: Ask the history and the political cards and international treaties before the establishment of the usurper entity you had this entity exist? This land does not know her name, but the name of Palestine and this means that the so-called (Israel) is the name of an emergency and not this place and Palestine to the Palestinians and not subject to apportionment between the two countries and should return to her family.

the 65 anniversary for Nakba day

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Before 65 year ,here the World Zionist movement success with the support of the  British Mandate in control by force of arms for the bulk of the land of Palestine and the Declaration of the State of Israel.
  These two coincided with the expulsion and displacement of Palestinians from 20 cities and nearly 400 villages have become its property and farms part of the new state.

nakba-refugees

During those events – which was accompanied by military intervention Arabic against the Jewish occupation of Palestine – died ten thousand Palestinians, at least in a series of massacres and killings are still mostly unknown and was wounded three times that number wounded and displaced 60% of Palestine’s population, or about 700 thousand people.

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 The plight of Palestine is the plight of separating people from their land and expel residents of 531 towns and villages from their homes in 1948.And began when Britain betrayed its promises to the Arabs to grant independence to their country after the end of Ottoman rule. And issued on the tongue and Foreign Minister Balfour Declaration on November 2, 1917, the establishment of a national homeland for the Jews in Velstinually over 28 years of rule by the British Mandate.

Britain enacted laws and taken measures that facilitated the establishment of this country that became a state in 1948. The number of Jews in Palestine during the British Mandate 56 thousand or 9% of the total population of Palestine, most of them foreign nationals.

At the end of the mandate in 1948 until it became the 605 thousand Jews as a result of overt and covert immigration allowed by Britain, despite opposition from the people of Palestine and the resistance and revolution, the most important revolution of 1936. Thus, the Jews became, representing 30% of the population of Palestine, who numbered about two million people in the Nakba.

On the humanitarian level The plight of Palestine left behind about nine hundred thousand refugees expelled from 531 towns and villages have been displaced to the south remaining in the Gaza Strip and to the east in what became known as the West Bank and to the north towards Syria and Lebanon.

The Palestinians are looking to the Arab League, which made ​​its first step to provide for the defense needs of the Palestinians in September 1947 what was known as the Technical Military Commission in order to assess the Palestinian defense requirements. The report came out the findings confirm the power of the Zionists and it is not for the Palestinians of manpower, organization or weapon or ammunition equivalent or close to as the Zionists.

 This has resulted in a traumatic event to the emergence of the Palestinian refugee crisis that two-thirds of the Palestinian people homeless in exile. It is estimated that about 50% of them were deported by the Jewish direct military assault on them.While others were forced to leave due to the spread of news massacres committed by Jewish militias in Palestinian villages like Deir yassen

 The painful memory of the Nakba are suitable where we remember the suffering of our people and wounds, these people who uprooted from their land and homeland but is still clinging to its roots and authentic  .The Palestinian people and despite the passage of 65 years since the Nakba will not forget his stolen homeland ..

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an interview

Yesterday I asked my grandmother about her experience Nakba ..  she cried and then began to answer
She told me: This incident  the toughest  incident passed in the life of the Palestinians .. We forcibly emigrated from our country and we do not want it .. We left our homes and we left everything behind .. Some people even leave his children and went away .. To an unknown fate
Was then an old people are uneducated and are not aware of it  .. When they hearing about the occurrence of a massacre in one of the neighboring villages .. they Flee quickly

The Jews had taken  over all our lands and we are able to do something
Some Palestinians went to abroad

And we came to the Gaza Strip. We lived in tents, UNRWA has supported us and provided our services .. Education and housing, food
And we are used to this life to this day my granddaughter

my opinion :

On the anniversary of the Nakba say that Palestine does not accept the division which is the right of the entire Palestinian people, which is still paying the price for his commitment to their land and their rights and martyrs and the blood and the prisoners and bear displacement, torture and displacement is not love in agony or pain, but in order to liberate the land and the expulsion of the usurper and the return of rights to establish a state on the entire border historically knownand geographically, politically and question posed in front of a lot of those interviewed in the near when asked about the state of occupation and where to go if all of Palestine for the Palestinians, I tell them: Ask the history and the political cards and international treaties before the establishment of the usurper entity you had this entity exist? This land does not know her name, but the name of Palestine and this means that the so-called (Israel) is the name of an emergency and not this place and Palestine to the Palestinians and not subject to apportionment between the two countries and should return to her family.

Mahmoud Darwish

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Mahmoud darwish 

he was born on 13 March 1941 in Al Birweh, a quaint village in the Galilee, Mahmoud Darwish went on to live a life that is a poignant example of how far talent and determination, combined with a precarious life, can carry an individual from a simple background into the international halls of fame. At the early age of seven, Darwish and his family were forced to flee to Lebanon to escape the ongoing massacres by the Israeli Army as it occupied Palestine and, in the process, destroyed the poet’s village (in addition to over 400 other Palestinian villages). Returning “illegally” to their country the following year, he and his family were subjected to military rule and emergency regulations of the State of Israel established over expropriated Palestinian land. They were given the status of “present-absent alien,” a status that will mark the poet from that point onwards, preventing him from ever finding his homeland, except in his language and his ever-loving audience.

It was as early as 1950 that the poet first realized how the poem can be “a threat to the sword” as he was harassed by the Israeli military governor for writing and reciting poetry that expressed his strong sense of Arab and Palestinian identity. These “harassments” were to continue until 1970 when he left to Moscow and then to Egypt, to finally settle for a while in Beirut until the Israeli invasion in 1982. After Beirut he became a “wondering exile” in Arab capitals, settling in Paris for a while, then Amman, and finally Ramallah, moving a step closer to the home which he still cannot reach. The circle is not yet complete….
“There is no age sufficient for me
to pull my end to my beginning.”
(Mural)

His life in the exodus somehow helped to ignite the poetic flame within him and exile became one of the sources of his literary creation. However, despite his geographic separation from his homeland, Darwish continued over the years to disrupt the status quo in Israel through the medium of poetry. In 1988, his widely circulated militant poem “Passers by in Passing Words,” a poem that he does not think highly of in literary terms but that nevertheless was met with great acclaim amongst the Arab public, was cause for a great uproar in Israeli circles, both the right and left wing alike. A book in French entitled “Palestine Mon Pays: L’affaire du Poeme,” published by Les Editions de Minuit in 1988, documents some of the articles that were written in defence of Darwish and his poem. In a similar manner, but this time in March 2000, Yossi Sarid, then the minister of education in Israel, suggested the inclusion of Darwish’s poetry in the Israeli high school curriculum. This suggestion resulted in a very close no-confidence vote for the Barak government.

The year 2000 witnessed the publication of Darwish’s twentieth book of poetry, Mural, a masterpiece epic poem which synthesizes his experience and poetry spanning 36 years as he contemplated impending “eternity” in a hospital bed after having undergone life-threatening surgery in 1998. In addition, he has five books of prose, and his work has been translated into more than 22 languages.

His most recent translations in English, “Mahmoud Darwish: Adam of Two Edens” (Jusoor and Syracuse University Press, 2000) and “The Raven’s Ink: A Chapbook” (Lannan Foundation, 2001) include a host of Darwish’s most acclaimed poems written between 1984 and 1999. Even though “he is known the world over as the poet of Palestine,” as Margaret Obank says in her review of “The Adam of Two Edens,” Darwish’s poetry “has been published only sparingly in English.” These two volumes are an excellent introduction, in English, to this poet who is considered to be “indisputably among the greatest of our century’s poets.” (Carolyne Forche)

It is perhaps Darwish’s very special relationship to the Arabic language that has set him apart from other Arab poets of his time. Putting the political cause aside, a double-edged sword in the case of the poet’s literary career, Darwish has created a new zone in the Arabic language that he can call his own: he constructs his kingdom – homeland in language. Considered by one prominent Arab literary critics as “the saviour of the Arabic language,” Darwish manages to describe mundane events and uncover his (and his people’s) innermost feelings through words juxtaposed in the most idiosyncratic of contexts, creating fascinating new images. The symbols, metaphors, and style in his poetry are carefully chosen; yet at the same time they reflect an integrity and clairvoyance that are a unique characteristic of this writer. A number of his poems have even been called “prophetic.” With his artistic intuition and acute political common sense, he manages to see and read what very few people can. When that understanding finds its way into a poem, it gains a totally new significance to the readers, because it usually is an expression of what they fear most but are unable to utter.

This is true of his character even in politics. In 1993, when Darwish resigned from the PLO executive committee to protest the Oslo Accords, he could see at the time, as very few people within the PLO could, that there was a structural problem with the accord itself that would only pave the way for escalation. “I hoped I was wrong. I’m very sad that I was right.” (New York Times interview)

His relationship to language remains unsurpassed by any relationship he has with anyone or anything. Having a special talent for uncovering and creating the music in language, his poetry has been a fertile ground for musicians all over the Arab world to compose the most beautiful and popular of songs. The fact that his words translate so easily and splendidly into musical lyrics resulted in a wide array of beautiful songs that are as much a credit to the poet as they are to the musicians.

Choosing to spend most of his time during the recent Palestinian Intifada in Ramallah, under siege, Darwish wrote three extraordinary poems of resistance slightly reminiscent of his early poetry. “Mohammad,” “ The Sacrifice” and “A State of Siege” were published in newspapers in Palestine and the Arab world during 2001 – 2002. The last one, “A State of Siege,” is currently being published in a book in Arabic, to become Darwish’s 21st book of poetry. In this last poem, he describes the siege of Ramallah and the Palestinian land in profound images that invoke daily life in a vivid and multi-layered way: 

A woman asked the cloud: please enfold my loved one
My clothes are soaked with his blood
If you shall not be rain, my love
Be trees
Saturated with fertility, be trees
And if you shall not be trees, my love
Be a stone
Saturated with humidity, be a stone
And if you shall not be a stone, my love
Be a moon
In the loved one’s dream, be a moon
So said a woman to her son
In his funeral
He goes on to add:
During the siege, time becomes a space
That has hardened in its eternity
During the siege, space becomes a time
That is late for its yesterday and tomorrow
(A State of Siege)

Often called “the poet of the resistance,” and sometimes accused of writing in defence of Palestinian mainstream politics, Darwish still manages to constantly defy any strict definition of who and what he is or wants to be. He wrote the Palestinian declaration of independence in1988 and many poems of resistance that are an integral part of every Arab’s consciousness. But he also wrote a lot about love and death; he wrote poems that can be easily understood, and others that are so mystifying that many critics could not begin to decipher. In all this, he remains confident in his open and honest relationship to his readers. “When I move closer to pure poetry, Palestinians say go back to what you were. But I have learned from experience that I can take my reader with me if he trusts me. I can make my modernity, and I can play my games if I am sincere.” (New York Times interview) This intricate relationship with his ever-increasing audience is best described in this excerpt:
Whenever I search for myself I find the others
And when I search for them
I only find my alien self
So am I the individual- crowd?
(Mural)

Darwish is the recipient of many international literary awards including the Lotus prize in 1969, the Lenin prize in 1983, France’s highest medal as Knight of Arts and Belles Lettres in 1997, and the Moroccan Wissam of intellectual merit handed to him by King Mohammad VI of Morocco. In 2001, he won the Lannan prize for cultural freedom. This prize recognizes people whose extraordinary and courageous work celebrates the human right to freedom of imagination, inquiry, and expression. As defined by the foundation, cultural freedom is the right of individuals and communities to define and protect valued and diverse ways of life currently threatened by globalisation.

His reputation all over the world as a highly esteemed poet and individual is partly due to the fact that Mahmoud Darwish affirms an open conception of what being an Arab is. Arab, to him, is not an identity closed unto itself, but a pluralism totally open unto others. In his oeuvres, he dialogues with a group of cultures (Canaanite, Hebrew, Greek, Roman, Persian, Egyptian, Arab, French, English, Ottoman, Native American) as well as with myths of the three monotheistic religions. These dialogues create multiple layers within the poem that may be difficult to appreciate unless the reader can develop a full understanding of the “I”s and the “others” of the text.

When Darwish gives a poetry reading anywhere in the Arab world, a rare event, he easily draws thousands of people from all walks of life and social classes. It is as if he has become a personal possession, a national treasure, for every Arab, regardless of age, education, background, nationality, or religion. Now in translation perhaps he will also be embraced elsewhere in the world. No poet has been expropriated as Mahmoud Darwish has been over the past thirty years. No one realizes this more than him: 

And history makes fun of its victims
And its heroes
Takes a look at them and passes by
This sea is mine
This moist air is mine
And my name-
Even if I spell it wrong on the coffin –
Is mine
As for me,
Now that I am filled with all the possible
Reasons for departure –
I am not mine.
I am not mine
I am not mine…
(Mural)

palestinian prisoners in Israel

 

Since 1967, when Israel occupied the West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem, more than 650,000 Palestinians have been detained by Israel. This represents approximately 20% of the total population in the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT), and 40% of all males. Despite prohibition by international law, Israel detains Palestinians in prisons throughout Israel, far from their families, who almost never obtain the necessary permits to leave the Occupied Palestinian Territories to visit them.

No One is Protected

NE00_3There are an estimated 6,800 Palestinian prisoners being held in Israel, of which 10 are members of the Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC). The elected PLC members were victims of a mass arrest targeting legislators and officials on June 29, 2006, in the wake of the election that brought Hamas to power and the capture of Israeli Cpl. Gilad Shalit. Initially, 40 of the PLC members were charged. Most of the indictments were for “membership,” “activity” and “holding a position” in an “unauthorised association.” Meanwhile, the kidnapping and imprisonment of elected officials continues. For example, in December of 2010, Israeli soldiers kidnapped Hebron-area legislator Sheikh Khalil Nayef Rajoub – a PLC member who had been imprisoned in 2006 and had just been released five months earlier — after breaking into his home and searching it.

Of particular concern are the number of Palestinian minors in Israeli jails – 209 as of January 2011, 29 under the age of 16. In March 2011, the Palestinian Ministry of Detainee Affairs published a new report documenting the torture of children as young as seven in Israeli prisons. Between January and March of 2011, Israeli soldiers abducted 150 children and all of them were interrogated during the course of their imprisonment M_AW00_6– with many subjected to hitting, psychological abuse and other violence or threat of violence without a parent or adult representative present.

Children are often taken suddenly from their homes, often in the middle of the night, with soldiers surrounding the house and then raiding it. Soldiers usually do not have a warrant for arrest or searches. For example, in July of 2010, an unusually heavy number of Israeli soldiers (in 12 jeeps) entered the outskirts of the village to arrest a local youth, 17 year old Ahmad Abed Al-Fatah Burnat, without giving any reason. Ahmad was taken by jeep to Ofer military prison located outside Ramallah. Prisoners in Ofer, especially young boys, are kept in harsh conditions with the intention of pressuring them to give information about other Palestinians. Many are denied food and water for extended periods of time and exposed to extreme cold or heat.

Inhumane treatment of children is a violation of UN rules for the protection of juveniles and the treatment of prisoners in general, of which Israel is a signatory.

At the other end of the spectrum are older prisoners, some of whom have served terms of unprecedented lengths. Palestinian Nael Barghouthi, for example, is the world’s record-holder. The 54-year-old Barghouthi, originally from Ramallah, has been in custody for more than 33 years, after being detained on 4 April 1978 at the age of 21 for a suspected bombing. He has been in prison 12 years longer than he was free, and continues to be denied visits by his sister.

Getting Arrested: A game of Russian Roulette

The arrest and detention of Palestinians living within the OPT is governed by a wide-ranging set of military regulations that cover every aspect of Palestinian civilian life. There are now more than 1,500 military regulations governing the West Bank and more than 1,400 for the Gaza Strip. The Israeli commander of the region issues military orders, which often remain unknown and become apparent only when they are implemented. For example, carrying or placing a Palestinian flag is a crime in itself. Removing the rubbish put in the middle of a road by Israeli soldiers after they have left is another crime. Firing in the air during a wedding, as is the tradition, constitutes a danger to Israel’s national security, even if it occurs in the autonomous territories (area A). Pouring coffee for a member of an association declared illegal by Israel is deemed support for a terrorist organisation.

Israeli border policemen and soldiers arresting two Palestinian men in the West Bank village of Nabi Saleh, on 22 October 2010.Upon arrest, detainees are usually handcuffed and blindfolded. They are not informed of the reason for their arrest, nor are they told where they will be taken. Physical abuse and humiliation is common. In numerous sworn affidavits, detainees have reported that they were subjected to attempted murder, rape and many other forms of physical abuse. During arrest, detainees and their family members have often been forced to strip in public.

Under Israeli military regulations, Palestinians can be detained for up to 18 days without the Israeli military informing them of the reason for their arrest and without being brought before a judge. The army is also not obliged to inform the detainees’ families of their arrest or the location of their detention.

After or within this period, the person is sent to an interrogation center, placed in administrative detention, or held in custody awaiting charge and trial. Lawyer visits can be prohibited for up to 90 days after the day of arrest for a Palestinian detainee. In contrast, a meeting between an Israeli detainee and his/her attorney can be delayed for a total of only 48 hours (for “regular” violations) to 21 days (for “security” violations). The Public Committee Against Torture in Israel (PCATI) and the Palestinian Prisoners’ Club issued a report in December 2010 that found that between 70% and 90% of the detainees interviewed in the years 2005 to 2007 were not allowed to meet a lawyer able to provide advice and assistance prior to signing a confession.

What follows is either trial and judgment against the detainee or, more frequently, his/her transfer to administrative detention.

In the case of administrative detention, detainees face charges based on secret evidence. Theoretically, administrative detention can be extended indefinitely. Detainees do not know when they will be released or why they are being detained. Some Palestinian detainees have spent up to eight years in prison under administrative detention. (Compare that to an Israeli citizen, who can be held without indictment for an initial period of 15 days, which can be extended for only another 15 days.)

Palestinians are tried in Israeli military courts. These military tribunals are presided over by a panel of three judges appointed by the military, two of whom often do not have any legal training or background. These tribunals rarely comply with international standards for fair trials.

The maximum allowable civilian sentences are considerably less severe than those allowable in the military tribunals, a major reason for the significant differential in sentences passed upon Israelis and Palestinians. For example, a Palestinian convicted of manslaughter by a military tribunal is subject to a maximum sentence of life imprisonment, while an Israeli convicted of manslaughter in a civilian court faces a maximum of 20 years. Likewise, under the Israeli penal code, prisoners may be released after serving two-thirds of their sentence. The military orders under which Palestinians are judged do not allow for early release for any reason.

Into the “Gulag”

The fourth Geneva Convention forbids the transfer of detainees outside the OPT. Article 76 states that “all protected persons accused of an offense must be detained within the occupied country and if they are sentenced, they have to serve the sentence within it.” However, there are only two military detention centers and one military detention camp located within the OPT.

All of these detention centres are extremely overcrowded. Detainees sleep on wooden planks covered by thin mattresses. Electricity is sparsely provided and all movement is prohibited after sundown. Although Israel’s own prison regulations require inmates to receive sufficient food to remain healthy, Israel has recently taken to requiring detainees to obtain more than half of their food from families or the prison canteen. The food provided to Palestinian detainees is insufficient in both quantity and quality. Between March and May 2002, for example, inmates in military detention camps were provided with frozen food that they were only able to defrost by sunlight. There are no special dietary considerations made for detainees who suffer chronic illnesses such as diabetes or high blood pressure.

Hygiene among the prisons is poor as well. Those injured during their arrest often are forced to remain in blood-soiled clothing for several months; individuals who were detained in their night clothes or underwear also do not receive a change of clothing. Soap is rationed by the prison administration, and other personal hygiene items are offered infrequently and are often unsanitary. Hot water is seldom available. For example, each section of 120 detainees at the Ketziot Military Detention Camp receives one bar of soap each day, and none on Friday and Saturday. Garbage is removed irregularly, and the sewage system is in extreme disrepair.

As a result, a large number of detainees are in poor health. Prison clinics have become renowned for offering only aspirin for all health treatments and physicians within the clinics are all soldiers. Health examinations are conducted through a fence, and any necessary surgery or transfer to hospital for additional medical treatment is usually postponed for long periods of time. Demands made by Israeli organisations to provide health care to detainees have consistently been refused, in addition to petitions made by the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC).

According to a February 2010 Middle East Monitor fact sheet, there are approximately 1,000 Palestinian prisoners who suffer from chronic ailments, such as cancer, kidney failure, heart disease and diabetes, hypertension, anemia, acute inflammation in the back and lungs, and joint and skin problems. The number of affected inmates continues to rise as a result of medical negligence. Palestinian human rights reports have repeatedly accused the Israeli authorities of adopting a policy of deliberate neglect, leaving prisoners to face a slow death.

The Use of Torture during Interrogation and Detention

The Israeli High Court of Justice ruled on 6 September 1999 that interrogation methods described as “torture” may be used in the “necessity of defense” and in situations in which a detainee is considered a “ticking bomb.” Since Israel can legally hold detainees incommunicado for several weeks, interrogators are able to use methods of torture without impunity. Legalised torture includes sleep deprivation and shackling for extended periods of time.

According to 2008 research by Abdun-Nasser Farawn, a former prisoner and expert in prisoner affairs, 95% of Palestinians who had been imprisoned in Israel had been beaten; 89% were deprived of sleep for long times; 82% were forced to stand in difficult positions for long periods; 55% were subjected to extreme hot and cold temperatures; and 50% had pressure applied to their testicles. Furthermore, Farawna said that since 1967, 70 prisoners had died in Israeli custody as a result of torture.

A Palestinian detainee can be interrogated for a total period of 180 days, during which he or she can also be denied lawyer visits for a period of 60 days. Confessions extracted through torture are admissible in court. After the 180-day period, charges must be brought against the detainee, or he/she must be released.

If a complaint is lodged, investigations are confidential and led by a security agent under the authority of the State Attorney. No agent has been charged since the responsibility for investigations was transferred to the Ministry of Justice in 1994.

Disconnected from the outside world

Since June 2006, following the capture of Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit, the Israeli security authorities have imposed harsh constraints on family visits to prisoners, particularly those from the Gaza Strip. These restrictions culminated in a decision by the Israeli army in June 2007 to place a total ban on visits by the families of prisoners from Gaza.

The majority of prisons throughout the world ensure the basic right of prisoners to make phone calls to their families and lawyers. In Israel, a common criminal has the right to make such phone calls; however, Palestinian or Arab “security prisoners” are deprived of this right. Even in humanitarian situations such as bereavement, prisoners are denied the right to pay their respects by phone.

about palestine

Image    palestine !! when we talk about this country ! that’s mean that we talk about a great history .In palestine we can see the peace and the war also ,  this country is  strange ! the peace was created in it , in the same time it’s the most struggle country in the world why not ! and it has a strategic place that connect between the three continents ..

and it has a most beautiful    relief in the  world  and has the most wonderful  climate in all times  of a year.. on the other hand it has a great position in the history .. and it’s a religious place and it was a place for  alot of  civilizations .. so.. they built many towns in it .. Many tourists annually visit Palestine, but now their number less than before .. because of the bad treatment from israel And also because of the barriers and the lack of security often Also there is no suitable hotels and places for tourists

in 5th of may 1948 , palestine was occupied .. by Israeli soldiers . so ! the palestinians were forced to leave their land and houses ..  until now ! palestine  still stolen.. but its people are very brave and don’t give up . they are every day  killing or arresting , in order to free it and force the occupation to leave our land this is unfair hugely .. when the palestinian person can’t visit his land and a strange guy sit in it ..like  his homeland . ALSO , over than this ! they prevent us to enter it . but i’m trust in my god and in palestinians people that they will return palestine and injustice won’t still always .. one day it will be  removed